FWHM mesure with 2 differents software

Design, construction, tuning of spectroscopes
Information and discussion about softwares (telescope remote, autoguiding, acquisition, spectral processing ...)
Post Reply
Olivier GARDE
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:35 am
Location: Rhône Alpes FRANCE
Contact:

FWHM mesure with 2 differents software

Post by Olivier GARDE »

English version below :

Pour parfaire le réglage de mon spectro eshel, j'ai fait quelques mesures de FWHM du flux lumineux de la fibre optique avec 2 logiciels différents.
Je n'ai rien changé au niveau du spectro entre les 2 mesures (les valeurs sont en pixels) :

- Avec Audelà on a une valeur de 3,7 à 3,9 selon les axes x, y
Image

- Avec Maxim DL on obtient une valeur totalement différence de 4,46
Image

Pourquoi une telle différence et quelle est le soft qui donne la bonne mesure ?

To complete the setting of my eShel spectrograph , I did some measurement of FWHM from the optical fiber with 2 differents software and I get two completely differents values.
Nothing changed on the spectro between the 2 measurements (the values are in pixels), I get:
- With Audelà a value of 3.7 to 3.9 along the axes X and Y

- With Maxim DL a value of 4.46

Why they are a difference between the 2 softwares ? And witch one have the right result ?
LHIRES III #5, LISA, e-Shel, C14, RC400 Astrosib, AP1600
http://o.garde.free.fr/astro/Spectro1/Bienvenue.html
Ken Harrison
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:45 am
Location: St Leonards, Australia
Contact:

Re: FWHM mesure with 2 differents software

Post by Ken Harrison »

Olivier,
If you look at the profile of each star image you should be able to measure the FWHM by inspection. Converting the pixel FWHM to arc sec requires knowledge of the effective focal length of the system. It may be here that there is a difference between the software??
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before....
"Imaging Sunlight - Using a digital Spectroheliograph" - Springer
http://www.astronomicalspectroscopy.com
Robin Leadbeater
Posts: 1952
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:41 pm
Contact:

Re: FWHM mesure with 2 differents software

Post by Robin Leadbeater »

Perhaps the two software are using different techniques to calculate the FWHM. I think it is quite common practise to fit a curve (eg gaussian) to the PSF data and then quote the FWHM of this fitted curve. This has the advantage of using all the information in the line rather than individual pixel values (In particular if you have only a few pixels in the width of the star, estimating the FWHM using a simple linear interpolation can give significant errors) but the curve fitting technique does depend on the profile being a good fit to the chosen curve.

Robin
Last edited by Robin Leadbeater on Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
LHIRES III #29 ATIK314 ALPY 600/200 ATIK428 Star Analyser 100/200 C11 EQ6
http://www.threehillsobservatory.co.uk
Francois Teyssier
Posts: 1549
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:01 pm
Location: Rouen
Contact:

Re: FWHM mesure with 2 differents software

Post by Francois Teyssier »

Salut Olivier,

Qu'est ce que tu appelles le flux lumineux de la fibre optique ?

François
Robin Leadbeater
Posts: 1952
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:41 pm
Contact:

Re: FWHM mesure with 2 differents software

Post by Robin Leadbeater »

Hi Ken,
Ken Harrison wrote: If you look at the profile of each star image you should be able to measure the FWHM by inspection.
You cannot really do this by eye with any degree of accuracy if you only have 4 pixels per FWHM. You would need to assume some form of curve fit to estimate the true maximum value and then interpolate the pixel values to determine the half maximum points. I suspect exactly how this is done could easily explain the observed difference between 3.8 and 4.4 pixels produced by the two software.

Cheers
Robin
(edited to correct html quote code)
Last edited by Robin Leadbeater on Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
LHIRES III #29 ATIK314 ALPY 600/200 ATIK428 Star Analyser 100/200 C11 EQ6
http://www.threehillsobservatory.co.uk
Hubert Boussier
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: FWHM mesure with 2 differents software

Post by Hubert Boussier »

Bonsoir Olivier,

Je ne trouve pas que de 3.9 à 4.5 pixels en FWHM soient des mesures très différentes.
Si ces mesures étaient converties en un signal analogique par exemple une aiguille sur un cadrant, et pas des nombres avec 2 chiffres après la décimale qui ne veulent surement rien dire cela ne t'inquièterait peut être pas.
Hubert
Olivier GARDE
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:35 am
Location: Rhône Alpes FRANCE
Contact:

Re: FWHM mesure with 2 differents software

Post by Olivier GARDE »

Hi Ken,

Both software are in pixels not arc sec.

Hi Robin,
I think you're right, they are several method to measure FWHM.

François,

En fait je suis en train de faire les réglages de mon spectro eShel+ à différents points du système et à chaque fois, il faut que j'obtienne un spot de la fibre optique d'entrée la plus fine possible.

Hubert,

Certe la différence peut sembler minime, et je pourrais m'en contenter surtout que dans mon cas il faut que je trouve la valeur mini mais j'aime bien comprendre pourquoi il y a des différences sans doute dû à l'algorithme utilisé comme le précise Robin.
LHIRES III #5, LISA, e-Shel, C14, RC400 Astrosib, AP1600
http://o.garde.free.fr/astro/Spectro1/Bienvenue.html
Francois Teyssier
Posts: 1549
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:01 pm
Location: Rouen
Contact:

Re: FWHM mesure with 2 differents software

Post by Francois Teyssier »

Olivier,

Si je comprends bien, c'est la lumière (par exemple du jour) qui sort de la fibre ?
Si c'est le cas, ce n'est pas une source ponctuelle et la mesure de la fwhm classique pour une étoile (à peu près une gaussienne) n'a pas beaucoup de sens.
As tu fait une coupe avec MaximDL pour voir à quoi ressemble le signal ?

François
Jean-Paul Godard
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:17 pm

Re: FWHM mesure with 2 differents software

Post by Jean-Paul Godard »

Hi all,
I wrote a (deprecated) piece of software to read FWHM thru image on screen... The idea was to help astro photographers to achieve a good focusing when softwares didn't provide the facility... There was a question of unit.. a kind of multiplication factor....
There was no challenge to achieve the best focusing by themselves... but they were compeeting about the digit they were able to reach....
Take the value, achieve the smallest...
Jean-Paul Godard
Alpy600+guidage+calib+spox
Post Reply